OK. You win. You want to know what I am doing to prepare for Cata? So be it.
You all know the story of Pandora's Box I presume? The box was given to Pandora which contained all the evils of the world. When Pandora opened it, the entire contents of the jar were released, but for one – hope. Today, opening Pandora's box means to create evil that cannot be undone.
That's the risk I take, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.
What irks me a little is that I've already given you all the information you need in three posts weeks ago. The trilogy was all you needed to move gold from A to B where A is everyone else and B is you.
There was the post on why people spend gold in WoW. Then there was the one on how the average player gets gold and who they spend it with. And finally on how to increase the chances that they spend it withme you.
I know that some readers have understood what I was saying and have invested based on the information. These people will succeed in Cataclysm, because they take what information I've given and applied it to their circumstances - because remember each of us is different. We have different professions, we live on different servers, we all have different interests. I honestly cannot give you a "Do this, then this, then this" list which will work for everyone.
I know this from experience. This is why I do 'Rags to Riches' experiments on a regular basis. I have level 10 toons on 8 servers now with more than 1500g on them. I do this to learn what things are common between servers and what things differ widely - and then try and work out why this variation exists. Its called research, and it is part of why I have confidence entering Cataclysm.
OK rant over - you want to know what I am doing....
We all have heard of the phrase "History Repeats Itself". The problem is that that isnt the full quote. George Bernard Shaw, the Irish Author actually said:
So what do I mean? OK lets talk elemental items . In WotLK these were broken down into six groups - life, air, water, fire, earth and shadow. You can have crystallized or eternal.
Burning Crusade had similar. Motes replaced crystallized, primals replaced eternals, but ultimately they were the same.
Now compare some current prices:
Are you seeing what I am seeing? Ignore the fact that primals are generally more expensive than the sum of their parts (i.e. motes) - if you didn't already know this then you are poor and nothing I am saying makes any sense anyway.
What I am seeing is that the price of primals verses the price of eternals are comparable. Sure primal water and air is expensive compared to their eternal versions (Why is this? Because of the availability of them, and the fact you need to actually go and farm them PLUS because of what they can be used for).
What I am NOT seeing is that the prices of primals/motes are a few copper. They are still in demand , and people will pay good gold for them.
But this is all what is happening how - we need more history to strengthen our arguments.
I cannot tell you what the prices of motes and primals were come the end of burning crusade. It was over a year ago and I dont have records that far back. However I am 100% sure that what we are seeing in WotLK is exactly what happened at the end of BC. People got bored, people levelled alts, people stopped raiding, people saved up for the expansion. People dumped stock. Prices fell.
Lets look at what's happened in WotLK over the past six weeks to the price of eternals:
This is just one factor. Other factors to be considered:
OK so what does this tell us? It tells us that come cataclysm certain items are still going to be needed, and people are going to be willing to pay good gold for them. I predict that the price of eternals will increase from current prices by between 200 and 300%. Yes I predict that do every 100g you invest in eternals at market price will be returned 3 fold in the future.
Of course, I've been stashing eternals away for weeks, at snatch prices way below market price. My returns will be 5-10x what I paid.
Talking of herbs - if you are bored have a look at herb prices on you server. Exclude peacebloom, silverleaf and earthroot. Then exclude all Northrend herbs. What's the average price of herbs on your server for the rest?
A review of herb prices from Cael shows that most herbs prices, irrespective of whether they are from Wetlands, Hinterhands, EPL or Shadowmoon Valley are generally around the 80s-2g mark. Once again history shows that some items never really depreciate in price - so picking up bargains now will not see you wrong just because Cataclysm hits.
Of course, not everything is going to increase in price. There are many things that I am not investing in. Epic gems are one example. Why? Just ask history.
Look at current BC gem prices - we'll use yellow gems as an example.
I still sell Golden Draenite, for about 5-6g each. I prospect them from adamantite ore. I vendor Dawnstones for 3g each, because they rarely sell and if they do its for around 3g anyway.
Golden Draenite sell because its used for levelling Jewelry crafting. You cannot get onto Northrend JCing without going through the Golden Draenite level of gems. However you CAN bypass Dawnstones and Lionseye.
The same will happen with power leveling in Cataclysm - so the price of Sun crystals will increase and the price of King's Ambers will plummet in the weeks and months to come.
And so finally to Markco - what he's right about and what he's wrong about:
Markco's recommendations to dump before Cata:
From his first list I would question dreamshards (don't forget that the majority of Northrend enchants have to be purchased with Dreamshards). I personally have plans for Snowfall's (its a secret and I WILL NOT be telling Foo!). Eternals I have already discussed. Frozen orbs I have stockpiles - as I said it gives me options - an orb is any eternal I want. To change an eternal takes a whole days transmute.
From his second list - I personally wouldn't waste a bank slot on a netherweave bag that will sell for 6g come Cata, but good luck to those that do. Never stock bars - stock ore. If you need cobalt bars then make them, but what if cobalt ore goes to crazy prices?
You all know the story of Pandora's Box I presume? The box was given to Pandora which contained all the evils of the world. When Pandora opened it, the entire contents of the jar were released, but for one – hope. Today, opening Pandora's box means to create evil that cannot be undone.
That's the risk I take, but what needs to be done, needs to be done.
What irks me a little is that I've already given you all the information you need in three posts weeks ago. The trilogy was all you needed to move gold from A to B where A is everyone else and B is you.
There was the post on why people spend gold in WoW. Then there was the one on how the average player gets gold and who they spend it with. And finally on how to increase the chances that they spend it with
I know that some readers have understood what I was saying and have invested based on the information. These people will succeed in Cataclysm, because they take what information I've given and applied it to their circumstances - because remember each of us is different. We have different professions, we live on different servers, we all have different interests. I honestly cannot give you a "Do this, then this, then this" list which will work for everyone.
I know this from experience. This is why I do 'Rags to Riches' experiments on a regular basis. I have level 10 toons on 8 servers now with more than 1500g on them. I do this to learn what things are common between servers and what things differ widely - and then try and work out why this variation exists. Its called research, and it is part of why I have confidence entering Cataclysm.
OK rant over - you want to know what I am doing....
Oh you didn't think you were getting off that easily did you? I, of course, need to explain a few things first.
If history repeats itself, and the unexpected always happens, how incapable must Man be of learning from experience.George Santayana, Spanish Philosopher gave us another gem:
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.And therein lies the truth. You want to know how to make money with Cata? Then look to Burning Crusade.
______________________________
So what do I mean? OK lets talk elemental items . In WotLK these were broken down into six groups - life, air, water, fire, earth and shadow. You can have crystallized or eternal.
Burning Crusade had similar. Motes replaced crystallized, primals replaced eternals, but ultimately they were the same.
Now compare some current prices:
Are you seeing what I am seeing? Ignore the fact that primals are generally more expensive than the sum of their parts (i.e. motes) - if you didn't already know this then you are poor and nothing I am saying makes any sense anyway.
What I am seeing is that the price of primals verses the price of eternals are comparable. Sure primal water and air is expensive compared to their eternal versions (Why is this? Because of the availability of them, and the fact you need to actually go and farm them PLUS because of what they can be used for).
What I am NOT seeing is that the prices of primals/motes are a few copper. They are still in demand , and people will pay good gold for them.
But this is all what is happening how - we need more history to strengthen our arguments.
I cannot tell you what the prices of motes and primals were come the end of burning crusade. It was over a year ago and I dont have records that far back. However I am 100% sure that what we are seeing in WotLK is exactly what happened at the end of BC. People got bored, people levelled alts, people stopped raiding, people saved up for the expansion. People dumped stock. Prices fell.
Lets look at what's happened in WotLK over the past six weeks to the price of eternals:
This is just one factor. Other factors to be considered:
- Gold in Burning Crusade was not as abundant as it is now. Likewise (more history repeating itself) gold will be more abundant in Cataclysm - it will need to be when a full repair of ilvl 333 gear from red damage will cost you 500g
- When the economy is awash with currency, prices increase. Can you even imagine spending 16k of a mount in Burning Crusade? Just look around at the number of Tundra Mammoths and Motorbikes.
- If an item is in demand then people will pay well to get what they want. As supply goes down, prices go up. ECON 101 right there. Whatever you say, come Cata, Northrend is going to become a ghost town and the amount of eternals/crystallized items will decrease.
- What exactly the items were used for - which professions etc This is all available information on Wowhead
OK so what does this tell us? It tells us that come cataclysm certain items are still going to be needed, and people are going to be willing to pay good gold for them. I predict that the price of eternals will increase from current prices by between 200 and 300%. Yes I predict that do every 100g you invest in eternals at market price will be returned 3 fold in the future.
Of course, I've been stashing eternals away for weeks, at snatch prices way below market price. My returns will be 5-10x what I paid.
________________________________
This is just one of a lot of investments I am making. Now I am no idiot, and I am not going to take snap shots of every guild bank tab and show you exactly what I have. What I have done however, (and this requires storage space and lots of it) is I have left items as raw materials.
This gives me huge manoeuvrability. For example, I am investing in herbs. I am doing this because come cata (and this is well documented) Inks of the Sea will no longer be exchangeable for other inks. Of course I will have exchanged a lot of inks before Cata hits, and will have stockpiles of all ink types (sorry Foo - change of plan!).
However how many of each ink is very tough to predict, so I am also investing in herbs. They will remain as herbs. Therefore if I need them for inks I can mill them, and if I don't need inks I have them to sell to alchemists instead.
Processing a raw material is generally a one-way thing. You cannot unmill an ink once its made and get your herbs back. Like wise you cannot un-prospect your ore nor remove an enchant from a vellum. Once its done, you made your decision and you have to live with it. My advice - process nothing until you see what happens in Cata.
________________
A review of herb prices from Cael shows that most herbs prices, irrespective of whether they are from Wetlands, Hinterhands, EPL or Shadowmoon Valley are generally around the 80s-2g mark. Once again history shows that some items never really depreciate in price - so picking up bargains now will not see you wrong just because Cataclysm hits.
___________________
Look at current BC gem prices - we'll use yellow gems as an example.
I still sell Golden Draenite, for about 5-6g each. I prospect them from adamantite ore. I vendor Dawnstones for 3g each, because they rarely sell and if they do its for around 3g anyway.
Golden Draenite sell because its used for levelling Jewelry crafting. You cannot get onto Northrend JCing without going through the Golden Draenite level of gems. However you CAN bypass Dawnstones and Lionseye.
The same will happen with power leveling in Cataclysm - so the price of Sun crystals will increase and the price of King's Ambers will plummet in the weeks and months to come.
_________________________
Markco's recommendations to dump before Cata:
- Alchemy - Flasks, elixirs and potions
- Leatherworking - Arctic fur
- Tailoring - Spell threads and leg enhancements
- Blacksmithing -Titanium shield spike, titanium weapon chain, titanium plating and eternal belt buckle
- Jewelcrafting - Metas and epic gems
- Inscription - Snowfall Inks
- Enchanting - Dreamshards and Abyss Crystals
- Eternals - Shadow, Life and Air
- Other - Frozen Orbs and Primodial Saronites
- Saronite Ore
- Pets
- Netherweave bags
- Infinite Dust
- Less Cosmic Essence
- Cobalt Bars
- Alchemy Levelling Kits
- Scrolls of BoA Gear
- Borean Leather
- Crystallized Fire and Water
From his first list I would question dreamshards (don't forget that the majority of Northrend enchants have to be purchased with Dreamshards). I personally have plans for Snowfall's (its a secret and I WILL NOT be telling Foo!). Eternals I have already discussed. Frozen orbs I have stockpiles - as I said it gives me options - an orb is any eternal I want. To change an eternal takes a whole days transmute.
From his second list - I personally wouldn't waste a bank slot on a netherweave bag that will sell for 6g come Cata, but good luck to those that do. Never stock bars - stock ore. If you need cobalt bars then make them, but what if cobalt ore goes to crazy prices?
________________________
OK to conclude - I'm stockpiling a lot of items. And I mean a whole range, from Pre-BC through to WotLK items. Some are being stocked to just have them when I need them (and therefore not for profit and with no immediate plans to sell), some are being bought to sell once prices increase when Cata hits. Some will be sold immediately, others in the months that follow. And then there is a third set of items I am stocking up to put to other uses - snowfall ink falls into this category. Of course the ultimate plan is to make gold even from this third list - just not directly. My total stock would fetch at least 500,000g in today's market.
Remember that there will be phases in gold making in Cataclysm. There will be the initial madness (similar to Glyphmas), then over the coming weeks and months the game will enter different phases. The majority of players will take a main toon or two to level 85 quickly. Only then will their minds turn to Worgens and Goblins. Its during this phase that profession power levelling will occur, when the older trade goods will be required.
Making gold in WoW is about holding your nerve - investing at good prices and selling at the right time. Get the timing wrong and you will hurt yourself financially - even to the point of losing money. But if you do your research, know your markets and predict the markets correctly you will make huge amounts of gold come Cata. But just remember as I have said before:
There are goblins everywhere. We know our markets, we have gold to back us up and we aren't going anywhere. You may not know us but we will notice you. Enter our world with your eyes wide open - there is certainly gold to be made - but you will have to work for it. Leave your desperation at the door - because you aren't going to be a millionaire overnight. It's a long hard grind and if you aren't willing to put in the legwork you'd be better off sticking to your dailies.






15 comments:
Snowfall ink for rituals of the new moon perhaps?
Woo hoo - Breevok's back :).
I don't know what Breevok is up to with his snowfalls, and he has promised not to tell me. That said, there are only a few items that they can be used for.
That said I am also a 'tentative buy' on cheap snowfall inks, (and even had a stockpile until a wannabe Insane person got to me.)
Great post Breevok!
All I am stockpiling is raw mats so I can be agile for the Cataclysm release and move where the market goes when I need to.
BTW this is a great article, it's why you're on my blogroll ;)
Very good read.
Keep those element's price comparisons for the next expansion data :D
Probably doesn't change your calculation, but you'd be wasting a bank slot on 5 netherweave bags, as you should be storing the bolts of cloth.
Good article highlighting the principles more than the items. (I recommend changing the column header on the second table from 'Price Change' to reflect that you are representing the current price as a % of the Late Sept price - or change the formula. A price of 3g down from 4g is only a -25% price change or could be expressed as current price is 75% of previous price.)
I enjoyed how the title made it sound like you would disagree with me and you ended up agreeing with all my points. Over the past few months those posts have evolved to take into account both of your observations on stockpiling cobalt ore instead of bars and cloth instead of bags.
Although I do disagree that netherweave bags will be 7 gold in cata.
Firstly, I'm glad my comments are striking an intellectual stream of blogs from your site.
Secondly, I agree with all of your blog above i was just sitting there going yep, uhuh, agree, exactly!
Thirdly, and I'm unsure how to do this without it being an epic comment (so I've just accepted that it will be)
I have some slight variations on your practices that I'd like to just put out there for discussion(In other words tell me if I've speculated incorrectly), I don't know why I don't feel the need to post this on Markco or Gevlon's site but I just don't (maybe its the personal service i get here :)
I love this part of auctionhouse stuff, the speculation is just the biggest draw to me in the game right now and I think you are right in all your suggestions of goods but some I got to in different ways and some goods I'm treating differently.
Where i agree 100%
Epic Gems(being dead), Eternals, frozen orbs, "history is a teacher" altho i'd like to add a phrase from Shirley Bassy "it's all just a little bit of history repeating", Northrend will become a ghost town, why? bliz are forcing you to by taking away the portals in Dalaran, the reason BC mats are still expensive is professions, like death and taxes you have to level up through BC and northrend materials to get to the higher skill levels.
Where my practice has slightly differed
So my work was just to find the common easy mats that help you skill through critical sections and then I checked what that raw mat was used for across professions and picked items with "profession redundancy" by that i mean, It had to have at least 2 professions supporting it in case Bliz decided to shaft me.
example. netherweave bags, what happens if blizz decide to offer 20 slot bags off a vendor for 1gold unlimited supply or they change it so you create a level one and it has 22 slot bags on it, screwed. I'm having to treat everything individual to my server as eternals are still stupid high (all are at least at 10g each still) and netherweave cloth is still hovering around 5g a stack(so i have no vendor escape). So i figured id leave it not as bolts (which is extremely efficient and still a viable alternative) but as raw cloth. This allows me not only to sell to tailoring levelers but also first aid, no-one seems to be commenting on the fact that the new first aid bandage is a HOT and imagine how many people are still below wrath in terms of a first aid skill because of its uselessness today (not to mention the fact that to max first aid requires multiple bandages made whilst the skill is green) so again, tailoring+first aid = win in my mind for frostweave/netherweave cloth on a 50% snatch.
I'm a little scared by the fact that currently the new primal has no broken down form, that scares me a little since there will be no easy cash like there is now with motes etc.
Be aware of Jessica Sellers! if you need inks and have an abundance of ink of the sea you can exchange a 1:1 with older inks, as of right now I think it is almost cheaper to buy older herbs on some servers as Adder's tongue supplies dry up but if not, be aware of that. I'm buying old world herbs (only precious few and only particular herbs) at cheap prices but my snatches are triggering less and less as we approach D-Day, but if you are somehow still getting an endless supply this may help you out.
I also questioned Markos statement about Dream Shards and as soon as i read his post on what he is an isn't keeping i was a little worried that i was about to have 500 items to trash, I'm going to take a risk and hope that the lack of people instancing with a disenchanter means that the shards do increase in price. Its a hedge and i have a little exposure but sometimes you gotta take a punt(it's only wowgold after all).
Apologies for my tardiness in replying but I was hungover for the entire weekend.
Firstly, I'm glad my comments are striking an intellectual stream of blogs from your site.
Secondly, I agree with all of your blog above i was just sitting there going yep, uhuh, agree, exactly!
Thirdly, and I'm unsure how to do this without it being an epic comment (so I've just accepted that it will be)
I have some slight variations on your practices that I'd like to just put out there for discussion(In other words tell me if I've speculated incorrectly), I don't know why I don't feel the need to post this on Markco or Gevlon's site but I just don't (maybe its the personal service i get here :)
I love this part of auctionhouse stuff, the speculation is just the biggest draw to me in the game right now and I think you are right in all your suggestions of goods but some I got to in different ways and some goods I'm treating differently.
Where i agree 100%
Epic Gems(being dead), Eternals, frozen orbs, "history is a teacher" altho i'd like to add a phrase from Shirley Bassy "it's all just a little bit of history repeating", Northrend will become a ghost town, why? bliz are forcing you to by taking away the portals in Dalaran, the reason BC mats are still expensive is professions, like death and taxes you have to level up through BC and northrend materials to get to the higher skill levels.
Where my practice has slightly differed
So my work was just to find the common easy mats that help you skill through critical sections and then I checked what that raw mat was used for across professions and picked items with "profession redundancy" by that i mean, It had to have at least 2 professions supporting it in case Bliz decided to shaft me.
example. netherweave bags, what happens if blizz decide to offer 20 slot bags off a vendor for 1gold unlimited supply or they change it so you create a level one and it has 22 slot bags on it, screwed. I'm having to treat everything individual to my server as eternals are still stupid high (all are at least at 10g each still) and netherweave cloth is still hovering around 5g a stack(so i have no vendor escape). So i figured id leave it not as bolts (which is extremely efficient and still a viable alternative) but as raw cloth. This allows me not only to sell to tailoring levelers but also first aid, no-one seems to be commenting on the fact that the new first aid bandage is a HOT and imagine how many people are still below wrath in terms of a first aid skill because of its uselessness today (not to mention the fact that to max first aid requires multiple bandages made whilst the skill is green) so again, tailoring+first aid = win in my mind for frostweave/netherweave cloth on a 50% snatch.
I'm a little scared by the fact that currently the new primal has no broken down form, that scares me a little since there will be no easy cash like there is now with motes etc.
Be aware of Jessica Sellers! if you need inks and have an abundance of ink of the sea you can exchange a 1:1 with older inks, as of right now I think it is almost cheaper to buy older herbs on some servers as Adder's tongue supplies dry up but if not, be aware of that. I'm buying old world herbs (only precious few and only particular herbs) at cheap prices but my snatches are triggering less and less as we approach D-Day, but if you are somehow still getting an endless supply this may help you out.
I also questioned Markos statement about Dream Shards and as soon as i read his post on what he is an isn't keeping i was a little worried that i was about to have 500 items to trash, I'm going to take a risk and hope that the lack of people instancing with a disenchanter means that the shards do increase in price. Its a hedge and i have a little exposure but sometimes you gotta take a punt(it's only wowgold after all).
Apologies for my tardiness in replying but I was hungover for the entire weekend.
Firstly, I'm glad my comments are striking an intellectual stream of blogs from your site.
Secondly, I agree with all of your blog above i was just sitting there going yep, uhuh, agree, exactly!
Thirdly, and I'm unsure how to do this without it being an epic comment (so I've just accepted that it will be) and has to cross multiple posts cause it can’t be handled.
I have some slight variations on your practices that I'd like to just put out there for discussion(In other words tell me if I've speculated incorrectly), I don't know why I don't feel the need to post this on Markco or Gevlon's site but I just don't (maybe its the personal service i get here :)
I love this part of auctionhouse stuff, the speculation is just the biggest draw to me in the game right now and I think you are right in all your suggestions of goods but some I got to in different ways and some goods I'm treating differently.
Where i agree 100%
Epic Gems(being dead), Eternals, frozen orbs, "history is a teacher" altho i'd like to add a phrase from Shirley Bassy "it's all just a little bit of history repeating", Northrend will become a ghost town, why? bliz are forcing you to by taking away the portals in Dalaran, the reason BC mats are still expensive is professions, like death and taxes you have to level up through BC and northrend materials to get to the higher skill levels.
Where my practice has slightly differed
So my work was just to find the common easy mats that help you skill through critical sections and then I checked what that raw mat was used for across professions and picked items with "profession redundancy" by that i mean, It had to have at least 2 professions supporting it in case Bliz decided to shaft me.
example. netherweave bags, what happens if blizz decide to offer 20 slot bags off a vendor for 1gold unlimited supply or they change it so you create a level one and it has 22 slot bags on it, screwed. I'm having to treat everything individual to my server as eternals are still stupid high (all are at least at 10g each still) and netherweave cloth is still hovering around 5g a stack(so i have no vendor escape). So i figured id leave it not as bolts (which is extremely efficient and still a viable alternative) but as raw cloth. This allows me not only to sell to tailoring levelers but also first aid, no-one seems to be commenting on the fact that the new first aid bandage is a HOT and imagine how many people are still below wrath in terms of a first aid skill because of its uselessness today (not to mention the fact that to max first aid requires multiple bandages made whilst the skill is green) so again, tailoring+first aid = win in my mind for frostweave/netherweave cloth on a 50% snatch.
I'm a little scared by the fact that currently the new primal has no broken down form, that scares me a little since there will be no easy cash like there is now with motes etc.
Be aware of Jessica Sellers! if you need inks and have an abundance of ink of the sea you can exchange a 1:1 with older inks, as of right now I think it is almost cheaper to buy older herbs on some servers as Adder's tongue supplies dry up but if not, be aware of that. I'm buying old world herbs (only precious few and only particular herbs) at cheap prices but my snatches are triggering less and less as we approach D-Day, but if you are somehow still getting an endless supply this may help you out.
I also questioned Markos statement about Dream Shards and as soon as i read his post on what he is an isn't keeping i was a little worried that i was about to have 500 items to trash, I'm going to take a risk and hope that the lack of people instancing with a disenchanter means that the shards do increase in price. Its a hedge and i have a little exposure but sometimes you gotta take a punt(it's only wowgold after all).
Apologies for my tardiness in replying but I was hungover for the entire weekend.
I agree with your basic premise but I remember quite well what primals were going for in BC and in some cases you are pretty far off. Primal fires were used for the most things and were always the most expensive, ranging from around 9-12g. Primal earth was used in a lot of items as well and although the supply was plentiful the demand kept the prices at 3g-5g. If your bank was full of primal earth you lost gold holding them into WoTLK. Primal Mana was about the same price as the earth. Demand was good but motes dropped all over the place while doing dailies on the Isle. Primal shadow was generally 6-9g but was very volatile, with a limited supply that pretty much only came from farming Voidspawn etc. Water and Air were somewhere about 5-6g. Big profit if you held onto those! Primal life was pretty close to fire in price.
Just like investing in the stockmarket, if you have a variety of investments (mats stored in your banks) you reduce the chance of losing a ton and at the same time limit the top end of your profits. If you are going to bank eternals you probably want to have some of each kind. You may also want to limit them to say 10-15% of all the stuff you are saving.
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