Yesterdays post brought up some interesting comments - but I would like to focus on Cassandri's because I have a question to ask.
Cass said:
Example One
Lets say we drop Saurfang and the Conqueror's Mark of Sanctification drops.
My priest wears only wears two tier pieces in his disc spec (both t10.5), but four tier pieces on his shadow gear (one t10.5 and three t10).
Now lets assume that there is a lock in the run who has three 10.5 pieces and one last t10 item.
Extending your arguement would suggest that I am not allowed to roll on the token because its an OS roll for the priest.
ExampleTwo
Near identical situation except the priest has one t10 and one t10.5 on his disc gear. He rolls and wins the token but chooses to upgrade a piece of his shadow t10 gear instead - as he knows it gives him a chance to roll as MS next week if a token drops.
Is this fair?
Cass said:
I think you're approaching the MS/OS issue the wrong way. It's not about what the individual would like to have - it's about what items get used the most.Now I understand where you are coming from Cass - honestly I do. But I would like to toss something into the mix:
In your tank example, a tanking shield may be used on 40% of the time (if this tank is DPS for 60% of the raid). But if that tank shows up for every single raid that's 40% of your raiding time. If he shows up only 1 night out of 2 that's only 20% of your raiding time that shield is used.
Regardless of your GS if you only play as Shadow one 5th of the time are you really the best person to get DFO over a Mage who shows up 1 night out of 2 and DPS for the whole night? (20% use vs 50% use)
Example One
Lets say we drop Saurfang and the Conqueror's Mark of Sanctification drops.
My priest wears only wears two tier pieces in his disc spec (both t10.5), but four tier pieces on his shadow gear (one t10.5 and three t10).
Now lets assume that there is a lock in the run who has three 10.5 pieces and one last t10 item.
Extending your arguement would suggest that I am not allowed to roll on the token because its an OS roll for the priest.
ExampleTwo
Near identical situation except the priest has one t10 and one t10.5 on his disc gear. He rolls and wins the token but chooses to upgrade a piece of his shadow t10 gear instead - as he knows it gives him a chance to roll as MS next week if a token drops.
Is this fair?
4 comments:
There is no perfect loot system - probably because people will always be involved.
In your first example you're looking at who's getting the biggest upgrade right? That your offspec is more in need of the item compared to the Warlock's spec? This is almost impossible to factor down into a numbers game because it's so subjective. In fact unless you're running a Loot Council I've never seen a guild try and base DKP rules to try and give items to people when it's the biggest upgrade.
Of course it's not uncommon for players to voluntarily pass on an upgrade when they believe their fellow Priest/caster/whatever would benefit more. But that's not a DKP rule.
I don't like giving players who are the worst geared preference. Most of the players who are in the absolute worst gear are in that gear because they are either very new to the guild or have abysmal performance and don't attend often enough to get upgrades.
In the first example I've seen way too many new guildies get geared up so fast that they actually don't value their rewards and either gquit or just stop trying in the raids. And I think I've made it pretty clear that attendance > all.
So in your Example One yes I think the rule should be the Warlock gets it for his main spec if that item will see more use. Of course he could choose pass on it.
Or in a more interesting situation what happens if it's BiS for your Shadow set and 2nd or 3rd BiS for the Warlock's set? Who gets preference?
I still think it's up to the Warlock in this situation to *choose* to pass. They should still get preference.
In your second Example there is simply no rule on how to prevent this. You just need to trust your raiders to be honest.
We had one raider switch from his Hunter to his DK as his raiding character and when I was doing loot he bid for and won 5 tier tokens all for his main spec (buying them up at minimum bid, and getting priority over all the players wanting to upgrade their offspec). At the time it felt like he had snapped up 6 or more tokens and I started to wonder how honest he was being - was he saying their were for his offspec and infact he using them for something else?
Turns out I need not have worried when he got the 5th token another player (a Rogue on the same token) spoke up and questioned if the DK really needed 5 pieces of DK DPS gear and followed up with a strict "I'll be inspecting you next raid".
Players police each other :D
And, yes, he was being honest :)
*saying their were for his mainspec*
I believe personally that Tokens should count as a MS item. IF people are rolling on the token that already have their required tokens for mainspec i think let them go for it.
At the end of the day they are wasting their Mainspec roll to upgrade a piece of Offspec gear. In saying that the people who actually NEED it for mainspec do miss out...
I agree with Cassandri.. Attendance > All. Well geared regulars will clear future content much faster and easier- this will ultimately benefit all of your offspec's, but not until the majority of the riad has up to date mainspec gear.
I am interested in what you have come up with.. you said you wree going to post it! ;-)
In our guild we use EP/GP for mainspec distribution and if noone wants it for main spec it goes to open roll for offspec. There is a clear stratification in the priority ratings of the players that are active and the players that are not - thta is how I know the loot system works.
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